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hello I'm Brian Odom I'm NASA's Chief

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historian and I would like to welcome

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you to today's conversation in honor of

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Asian American native Hawaiian and

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Pacific Islander

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a-a-n-hpi heritage month I have the

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pleasure to be joined by U.S Navy

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Lieutenant Commander and NASA astronaut

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Mr Johnny Kim and NASA headquarters

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a-a-n-hpi employee Resource Group

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co-chair Miss Anita day thank you both

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for joining for today's conversation

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about the contributions of the aanhpi

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community to the history culture and

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fabric of the United States this year's

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AA nhpi observant month theme is visible

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together

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it is set by the White House initiative

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on Asian Americans native Hawaiians and

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Pacific Islanders and the Smithsonian

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Asian Pacific American Center this

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year's theme invites us to all reflect

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on the power of community and allyship

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Johnny when you hear visible together

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what resonates with you the most how

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important is that message

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I think you said it really well that

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when I hear visible together think of

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community I think of allyship I think of

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working together to accomplish a goal

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and those are the those are the the

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words that I feel when I hear this when

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I hear that phrase

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okay Anita as NASA headquarters employee

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Resource Group chairperson can you tell

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us about how NASA makes the aanhpi

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community experience visible to the

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world and how the community

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experiences NASA yeah sure so the NASA

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staff is 8.7 percent AA and HPI so

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um that's in contrast to the civilian

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Workforce being almost half of that

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Asian Asian American

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so that tells me NASA is a good safe

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place for us to be generally

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um we are proud of our work we are proud

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of being at Nasa what we're also proud

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of our cultures and our different

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identities

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so it would be really amazing for

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society but also the agency to be able

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to see us as more than just

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Asian-American native Hawaiian Pacific

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Islanders to be able to see all the

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different countries we come from

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and once people are able to see us uh in

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that way as these individuals I think

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it'll be easier to have us in roles of

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leadership as well

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um I said that that the AAA nhpi

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population at Nasa is 8.7 of the

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population but we are only

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4.6 of the SES and other executive

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positions

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so you know you could say there's a

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bamboo ceiling at Nasa

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um but I'm very very pleased that the

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agency has been working on this and we

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have been working

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um with various offices on some policy

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Solutions

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you know that's a great point it is this

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is a very tough topic my own research

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goes back to you know looking at the

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Apollo program and the kind of the its

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relationship to the civil rights

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movement and looking at how that decade

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of the 1960s really unfolded and into

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you know uh the a more Central approach

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to equal employment opportunity and

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really NASA in the 1970s the early 1970s

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began to think about diversity and

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inclusion and really meaningful ways and

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I think you really see that in this you

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know eventually the space shuttle

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program opens up new opportunities for

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uh you know for visibility of of all

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minorities and especially in the 1978

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astronaut class for the that first

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shuttle class that I think was was

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critically important uh so you look at

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you look at that class in particular

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Ellison uh onazuka was the first Asian

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American to fly in space he was a member

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of NASA's astronaut that astronaut class

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of 78. uh first this was the first

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astronaut class to include women

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Hispanics Asians African-American uh so

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so really I guess Johnny uh you know who

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were some of the astronauts during you

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know during this period maybe later that

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you really looked up to uh and were

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there any aanhpi astronauts that

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influenced your path to becoming an

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astronaut

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I would say

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when I think about my childhood having

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Heroes is important we all know this

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having role models and people to look up

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to having dreams as a child is really

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really important

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and growing up I had a poster of the

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Apollo 11 crew

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Mike Collins Buzz Aldrin and Neil

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Armstrong that classic photo with the

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moon as their backdrop I have that over

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my bed

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and

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I thought it was an amazing thing

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but if you had asked me and people often

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do ask me have you thought about being

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an astronaut have you always wanted to

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be an astronaut the answer is no I

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didn't think about being an astronaut

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until six months before I applied

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and being an astronaut is oftentimes a

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childhood dream for so many people

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and when I think about that well I had

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that Apollo and poster above my bed

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and I thought being an astronaut was one

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of the coolest things you could ever do

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to be a hero and positively impact the

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world

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but I never once saw myself doing that

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and it's not

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it's just as simply because I never

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could relate to that

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I never

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saw any Asian Navy Seals I didn't see

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any I didn't know of any Asian American

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astronauts and so that's just not

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something that I grew up thinking I

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could do

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and

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it's important to have those remote

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models to have those Heroes that we can

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relate to so to answer your question I

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admired all sorts of astronauts

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but was there a particular Asian

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American astronaut that I knew about or

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aspired to be he liked

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the interest no I wish I I did and

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that's what I am very proud to be part

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of today's NASA's Workforce today that

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represents a much more modern America

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with diversity of backgrounds from all

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walks of life all Races Creeds and

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colors and we're all working towards the

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same mission of exploring space for the

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good answer your answer uh you know so

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can I continue that a little further so

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we know that minority groups can face

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all sorts of stereotypes uh this term uh

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model minority myth is a persistent

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stereotype that really paints Asian

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Americans as inherently more successful

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than the general population or in

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contrast to other minority groups so so

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Johnny how did the myth help or hinder

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you uh how did it help Define the person

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you know you are today

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this could be a this could be a really

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long and layered response I'm gonna try

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I'll try and do my best to articulate my

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thoughts around it it's a particularly

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really sensitive question and topic and

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and I don't know if I'm particularly

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qualified to answer that or even

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articulate that

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no one should ever be put in a box no

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one should ever be put

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have labels attached to them

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and

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I've certainly felt growing up like I

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lived in a box I had a square that I had

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to color inside and I had to stay within

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that and people will always have

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expectations based on the way you look

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where you're from your gender your race

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your Creed glass ceilings are everywhere

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and it's up to the Pioneers to break

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through those glass ceilings

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and that's what that's what we do and we

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do that well at Nasa the glass ceilings

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exist everywhere and the model minority

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myth is just another version of that

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glass ceiling you

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you simplify someone's experience base

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their capabilities who they are as a

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person their identity inside a very

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small box and if you go outside of the

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box you're not part of that Identity or

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you're doing something abnormal

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I I've never been one to follow that

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kind of thinking and and when I wanted

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to join the Navy to become a Navy SEAL

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and enlist at the age of 18 I strayed

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far from that path from what

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certainly the korean-american community

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and a lot of people who knew me

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felt that I should stick on it's like no

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you should maybe go to school to be a

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doctor or an engineer it's like no I

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wanna I wanna serve my country in a way

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that I feel I'm called to do and that's

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to be a warrior at that phase of my life

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and whether the model minority myth

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one thing I often hear is oh that's a

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good stereotype well there's no such

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thing as a good stereotype stereotypes

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paint labels and boxes and America is

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about becoming the very best you can be

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smashing through barriers and

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accomplishing the the best that you can

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and when we do that Americans accomplish

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great things

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and

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for so many reasons is why the model

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minority myth is what it is it's a math

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and it is also not very conducive or

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productive to for Americans

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excellent excellent point uh Anita

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so you know coming from your perspective

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you know would you say that that uh that

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model minority myth presents challenges

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for the AAA nhpi community in the

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workplace and if so can you elaborate

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and share how the community has to you

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know overcome those challenges yeah

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at first I have to say that Johnny

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that that was an amazing

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laying forth of what the Miss is and how

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detrimental it can be

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um

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so like I said it's it's a tiresome myth

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and I think it's so incredibly damaging

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um to those of us who are just trying to

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be ourselves

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for For Better or For Worse you know for

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a myth

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to say that you're always perfect is

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really stressful

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um in the workforce though at the

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workplace it's it's damaging because

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people can use it to sweep away the idea

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that there is discrimination against a

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certain group in this case us

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you guys are fine you've got it covered

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no I have heard stories of people who

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should have been promoted and they

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weren't people whose reviews should have

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been higher than they were

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um

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you know overcoming the myth is very

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difficult it is persistent

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and what's interesting is a lot of

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people haven't heard of it even people

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working in this space talking about

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diversity so that's why I'm incredibly

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grateful that that you were willing to

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talk about it today and we can just

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raise awareness of of what this is

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um I will say when I'm feeling stronger

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I do try to think of it as

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as a Advantage almost

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because it I think it gives me privilege

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it gives me

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um the ability to say things that maybe

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other minority groups may not feel

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comfortable saying if I'm seen as one of

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the good ones you know maybe I can speak

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some truth

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uh where other people feel like they

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can't

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that reminds me of something we talk

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about allyship yes being a good friend

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being a good

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a buddy a teammate a comrade whatever

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you want to call it advocation will

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always be stronger and more meaningful

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when it's coming from someone that's not

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you yeah it's not benefiting from such

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advocacy so I completely understand what

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you're saying

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and and the other employee resource

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groups at headquarters and across the

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agency have been wonderful and we all

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try to to lift each other up in this

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process so I'm I'm happy to use some of

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my voice in that

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I think those you know you both

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excellent points on that and I think

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it's something that you know from

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someone who seeks to be an ally really

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something that you you know you would

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take us oh well that like you said

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that's a positive right that this can't

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be a negative issue so to hear people

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talk about this openly and just have

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that conversation and really inform

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people uh of perspectives they may not

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have thought you know that somehow that

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this positive stereotype can be a

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negative just like what you said Johnny

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the stereotypes all stereotypes are

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problematic in in lots of different ways

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so Consciousness you know having a

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conscious uh you know of this issue I

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think is important so so thank you both

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for that so again Johnny you know you've

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got this other other thing too right so

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U.S Navy SEAL you know astronaut but we

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can't overlook this background that you

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have as a medical doctor right and and

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the thing that we've all experienced

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together uh collectively over the last

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years is that you know the pandemic has

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laid bare these inequalities in health

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care you know in this country and

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definitely around the world uh in

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addition there's the other that is uh

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the growing awareness of intersection

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between climate action racial Equity

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racial just injustice that's you know

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that is around the world and definitely

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in this country and has a a long history

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in this country uh so what is your take

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on the impact of these public health

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issues and the stress of racism on the

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AAA nhpi Community as well as you know

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minorities in general

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foreign

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I I could I could answer that question

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but

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I think again it do a disservice to not

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recognize and just communicate there are

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there are communities

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everywhere of

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of all sorts of sizes and Creeds and

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races that suffer from inequity it's

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it's a pandemic right and not there's

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not a single group that's more important

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than the other and what's the impact I I

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mean

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that you can have a pretty long

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discussion about what the impact you

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could just talk surely from the numbers

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when I was serving as a physician in

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healthcare the statistics just didn't

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lie and for example African-American

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population had a significantly increases

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statistically significantly increased

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risk of suffering from cardiovascular

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disease and not having the proper

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primary primary care physician follow-up

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and you can see examples of of the

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results of those inequities that exist

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everywhere so

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the impacts are real they're they have

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Long and Lasting negative impacts but

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we're doing the right thing that's where

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we're having a discussion about it we

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recognize it

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and those are always going to be the

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beginning steps to addressing that

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definitely I couldn't agree more there

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uh so you know after hearing this

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conversation from you both uh and you're

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hearing your personal you know really

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and heartfelt experiences you know I'm

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sure people in our audience will will

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want to help uh you know Advance equity

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for for everyone not just as we say uh

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one group but really thinking of it as a

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community as a nation uh and and trying

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to be better uh so Anita uh any advice

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on ways that the audience can support AA

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and HPI community and combat the

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invisibility calls by the generation

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generalization uh of such a diverse

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Community into one really homogeneous

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generic stereotype yeah of course thank

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you so I would advise people

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to try to see

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uh um for who we are and not who they

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think we are

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um I think the the first piece of that

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is what Johnny was talking about earlier

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you know education you know

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um you know talk to us learn about us as

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individuals but also now that there's

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the internet there's nothing you can't

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know nothing

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so so

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um do some research read about all the

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different countries we come from and

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then ask us questions to fill in the

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gaps

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um you know I would also encourage some

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introspection you know think about how

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you interact with people of from our

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community

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um are your thoughts colored by a

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stereotype whether it's the model

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minority myth or something else

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if there is a stereotype in your head

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it's okay we all have stereotypes about

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all sorts of things you know don't feel

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bad

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but don't let it sit there either think

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about why it's there what it does and

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00:17:28,189 --> 00:17:26,339
then and then fill in that Gap because a

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00:17:30,169 --> 00:17:28,199
stereotype is always filling in a gap of

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knowledge fill it in with the education

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you know knowing somebody or doing some

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reading

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and finally I would say speak up when

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you see discrimination say something you

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know when you see something say

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something is not just a you know doesn't

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just have to be a Homeland Security

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00:17:48,049 --> 00:17:45,299
motto

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um you know when when other people speak

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up when allies speak up they're they're

435
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striking a powerful blow against a

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systemic problem

437
00:18:01,070 --> 00:17:58,080
definitely couldn't couldn't agree again

438
00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:01,080
that's such an excellent point uh and I

439
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:02,400
hate to close this out I really want to

440
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:03,840
keep this conversation going I think we

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00:18:07,490 --> 00:18:05,280
could we could really talk about all

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00:18:09,529 --> 00:18:07,500
these issues and really come to you know

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00:18:11,330 --> 00:18:09,539
really expand on it but uh I'll stop

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00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:11,340
there and thank you both uh you know for

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00:18:15,890 --> 00:18:13,200
sharing these insights and you know on

446
00:18:19,070 --> 00:18:15,900
History uh for gathering with us today

447
00:18:21,770 --> 00:18:19,080
in honor of AA nhpi month um you know

448
00:18:24,409 --> 00:18:21,780
from as being a NASA Chief historian you

449
00:18:26,090 --> 00:18:24,419
know I've got an incredibly cool job uh

450
00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:26,100
but but one of the things that I really

451
00:18:30,049 --> 00:18:28,200
have focused on is looking at that issue

452
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:30,059
of you know just these issues and in

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00:18:34,490 --> 00:18:32,400
general and and and because I think that

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00:18:36,590 --> 00:18:34,500
the agency definitely if we're going to

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00:18:38,210 --> 00:18:36,600
just zero in on the the importance of

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00:18:40,669 --> 00:18:38,220
this history to the agency and the work

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00:18:43,130 --> 00:18:40,679
that we do you know human Ex human space

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00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:43,140
exploration scientific discovery you

459
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:45,120
know these are critical pieces of it you

460
00:18:50,210 --> 00:18:47,039
know if we can't if we don't learn from

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00:18:52,010 --> 00:18:50,220
this past and and learn that that the

462
00:18:53,870 --> 00:18:52,020
issues we're dealing with today people

463
00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:53,880
have dealt with these issues right what

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00:18:58,430 --> 00:18:56,160
Solutions have they come come to what

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00:19:00,830 --> 00:18:58,440
steps have they taken and what has it

466
00:19:02,930 --> 00:19:00,840
led to and just understanding this this

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00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:02,940
shared past and that's that you know all

468
00:19:06,830 --> 00:19:05,039
good Solutions you know will will come

469
00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:06,840
from this ability to move past these

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00:19:10,669 --> 00:19:09,120
stereotypes and and to really do

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00:19:12,169 --> 00:19:10,679
something great so again I appreciate it

472
00:19:13,970 --> 00:19:12,179
you know from a history side but

473
00:19:16,730 --> 00:19:13,980
definitely appreciate it from just the

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00:19:19,310 --> 00:19:16,740
uh thinking about this is a bigger

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00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:19,320
picture uh so we ask our viewers uh to

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00:19:24,049 --> 00:19:21,120
join us in reflecting on what it means

477
00:19:27,409 --> 00:19:24,059
to be visible together and take part in

478
00:19:30,049 --> 00:19:27,419
an upcoming AA nhpi event and engagement

479
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:30,059
to discover this the history their

480
00:19:34,669 --> 00:19:32,160
contributions and diversity of culture

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00:19:37,549 --> 00:19:34,679
also be sure to visit the faces of NASA

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00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,559
website on the screen to learn more uh